Hello to all my discussion students,
This is something some of you may be familiar with - though to be frank I'm not sure. It's an IQ test the American narrator of the video says is given in Japanese companies to new recruits. Never having worked for a Japanese employer in a business setting I have no way to know if this is really true - but I found this to be interesting and thought I should share it here.
1. Do you believe this kind of test has any merit? If so, how - and if not, why not?
2. If you have taken a test similar to this, how well did you do?
3. Should there be tests such as these in companies? Why or why not?
4. Does this kind of test call on thinking skills that are actually used in day-to-day work?
*Update - I overlooked posting the rules of this test! My apologies. The rules come from the YouTube post I got this from (I will leave them in the original font and point size so you can see clearly):
Watch, and post some comments about it to this blog post - or send to me at my email address (washizoraATgmailDOTcom) anytime between now and next Tuesday if you have difficulty uploading. I'll be interested to know what you think.
See you next week!
Image "Business Meeting" courtesy of luigi diamanti/ FreeDigitalPhotos.net
Image "Business Meeting" courtesy of luigi diamanti/ FreeDigitalPhotos.net
How are you? This post is some follow-up homework to our lesson today. Watch it at home or wherever you can access a computer. It's fairly long and you can skip some of it, but it was still the best I could find after searching for some time. I was looking for something interesting that would fit tonight's theme, and this seemed to be the most unique I had come across.
This is something some of you may be familiar with - though to be frank I'm not sure. It's an IQ test the American narrator of the video says is given in Japanese companies to new recruits. Never having worked for a Japanese employer in a business setting I have no way to know if this is really true - but I found this to be interesting and thought I should share it here.
This video uploaded from YouTube. I do not own the rights to this video. It is strictly for classroom use.
This video uploaded from YouTube. I do not own the rights to this video. It is strictly for classroom use.
If in fact this is true and even if it isn't - or is, but is not as you see it here - a few questions for you: 1. Do you believe this kind of test has any merit? If so, how - and if not, why not?
2. If you have taken a test similar to this, how well did you do?
3. Should there be tests such as these in companies? Why or why not?
4. Does this kind of test call on thinking skills that are actually used in day-to-day work?
*Update - I overlooked posting the rules of this test! My apologies. The rules come from the YouTube post I got this from (I will leave them in the original font and point size so you can see clearly):
Mother can't be alone with either of the sons without the father present (Shaken baby syndrome).
Father can't be alone with either of the daughters without the mother present (Incest/pedophilia).
The thief can't be with any of the family members without the police present (Snatching your people up).
Only the mother, father, and police can operate the raft.
Only two people can be on the raft at once.
Father can't be alone with either of the daughters without the mother present (Incest/pedophilia).
The thief can't be with any of the family members without the police present (Snatching your people up).
Only the mother, father, and police can operate the raft.
Only two people can be on the raft at once.
See you next week!
A quick comment - I overlooked posting the rules of this test on this, which were on the YouTube post I got the video from, so I've updated my post here. My fault - if you've been trying this and have been confused blame me!
ReplyDeleteThese comments come from Makoto. She has allowed me to post them here.
ReplyDeleteAccording my brother, Japanese companies useally ask some math quiz which we studied in junior high school (sometimes it will be high school level),free writing about their industries and current events. However, when they want to employ foreigner, I think they set some IQ test for them because they may long for talented people who are dissimiler to Japanese.
I think this kind of test has a certain merit when used properly to judge how well one can command logical thinking. I have taken "moon landing test" before, where you are asked to choose needed items to live on the moon. As a manager in a company, I sometimes have used the material to see the skill of the subordinates not only for logical thinking but for discussion.
ReplyDeleteTalking about recruiting employee, I don't think this kind of tests are appropriate because puzzles have some patterns to be solved. This means the results don't properly indicate how logically you can think. One can judge applicants' skill of logical thinking through interviews.
My conclusion about this issue would be that it is OK to use this kind of tests as materials to be discussed over but we should not rely on the score.
Andy
"Moon landing" - that's an interesting one. Maybe in another generation they would've given a test for something like "remote tropical island," or something like that!
DeleteIn all seriousness, a great comment from you who's on the inside of things, both as someone who has been through this and someone who now is in a position to gauge new employees and their strengths. Let me ask - if you see your colleagues being tempted to use these tests scores as a benchmark for new employees, how do you feel about it? Is there anything you can say to persuade them not to put too much faith in these scores? What do you think?
1.Do you believe this kind of test has any merit? If so, how - and if not, why not?
ReplyDeleteYes, I do because, as Andy commented before, we know their skill of logical thinking. In addition to it, I think we can test the flexibility of thinking.
2. If you have taken a test similar to this, how well did you do?
I have never taken such test, but I have taken other type of IQ test.
I did not remember about it well, but I thought I did not do well.
3. Should there be tests such as these in companies? Why or why not?
I do not think such tests should be used in companies because IQ test is very different from thing we have learnt from school(I mean University, High School, Junior and elementary school).
4. Does this kind of test call on thinking skills that are actually used in day-to-day work?
it depends on the field of working, but usually I do not think these skills are used in day-to-day work.
By way of Tsuyoshi - another excellent commentary from him, which he has permitted me to upload here:
ReplyDelete1. I do not think there will be certain merit in this test, because, through that test, only mathematical ability and logical thinking can be calculated. Those should be the important essence for the company, but in the meantime, those cannot be only matters to judge each personality. Each individual has own characteristic and consisted by those people, the company will be established. That means if there were ten peoples in there, there would be ten kinds of different personalities, and consisted by various knowledge and personalities, the company can be survived in the society. If the company unified only one ideal or methodology, that organization will be hard to survive, because they could be get along with one limited aspect. Especially, in the 21st century, the world is integrated in the name of globalization, so, to keep up with the international affairs, the company will have to consider each employees’ personality and characteristics. For example, we have only Japanese point of view and sense of values, but nobody is sure if those elements will be worked in the world. Thus, not the mathematical methodology but to emphasise their own personality will be important, I think. Nobody knows what is the definite sense of value in terms of business or daily life.
2. I am not good at mathematical thinking and methodology, so, I am sure that I will have to have the severe experience. Thus, if I were told to pass like that kind of test, I will study hard for it. However, in the meantime, I will get a question: What will be judged by this test? In the meantime, if I were boss and ordered the employees to take that test, I am sure that I will not understand their personalities well. That means the score of the test will not be the major essence to establish the certain relationships.
3. In my point of view, like this test will be meaningless. As I wrote in answer 2, there will be nothing to understand the other people’s personality or ability. Mathematical ability could be judged, but it does not mean that score will be the certificate that all the employees could get along with the international affairs in the world. I doubt that by like that test, the strong relationship and trustworthy will be established. Or more than that, by focusing only that test, the ability of rationalization will be grown. That mean the employees will lose one part of the human essence. Of course, the rationalization will be important for every kind of business, but it is the matter of private matter to deal with their jobs, not to establish the business relationships. Thus, as one part, that test will be important but it should not be the major element to judge the personality.
4. It can be considered as thinking skill, but in the meantime, it will be applied only limited situation. The reason is that there already existed the rules and situation in the game, and under the certain rules, the people will have to direct the answer. However, in the daily life, there situations can be changed suddenly, but private idea and matter cannot by applied to the society. That means different from the game, there cannot be established the rules. In the meantime, there will be nobody who willingly admitted the other people’s point of view. Each individual has own point of view and the will have to find the point of agreement. In that situation, different from the game, there is no definite rules in that occasion. In that game, the player will have to obey the definite rule, so, although they can direct the answer, it will not be the certificate that those attitudes could be applied to the real life. Thus, to complete the game will not guarantee the success in the daily life.
This kind of test is used to measure candidate's ability of thinking logically. One of its merits is you can choose a right person from many examinees because it is easy for examiners to distinguish people by score. That's why the kind of test which has one correct answer is widely-used among Japanese society, in school entrance exam as well as job tests.
ReplyDeleteI studied and took tests when I was doing job hunting. I wasn't good at this logical tests. After I started working, I realized the test many company asked us were not related with real working life. I think the reason why companies use this kind of test is only for HR examiners to explain their boss why they chose the candidate. "Because He/She Got a Better Score!" It's much easier to see clear score rather than invisible potential.
Here might be where the problem is though, Chiharu - the pressure on HR people to come up with something to please their superiors. You're not wrong to point this out - it's that the purpose of these tests wasn't originally, I think, simply to come up with scores but to gauge the relative strengths and weaknesses of job candidates. Yet what's happened, as Andy has pointed out, is that they have relied on the scores, perhaps for too long, because middle management especially has all this pressure on them to show results of things to upper management people who demand results.
DeleteMaybe the real problem is with upper management not wanting to be attentive enough, dumping work on their people - and the HR people in particular feel they have no choice but to rely on these scores.
1. I think that there are some merits for companies, and applicants as well.
ReplyDeleteBasically, there are several steps for Japanese companies recruitment. For example, explain session, resume screening,writing test such as "SPI", group discussion, job interview, and so on.
Since they have such complicated steps, for companies, there is a merit that they can select their applicants from the high-level score holders. It helps them to save their time to arrange job interview for all applicants.
For applicants,they can practice logical thinking skill before starting their work.
2. Actually, I'm not good at this kind of test, but it is very important to pass it for job hunting. All I had to do is just keep practice everyday.
3. In fact, there are similar tests as entrance examination in Japanese companies, the most famous one is called"SPI", to evaluate one's Japanese ability, mathematics skill, and personality assessment.
As I explained at last question, it is useful for companies to select their applicants efficiently.
4. In my opinion, I believe it is important for us to do our work efficiently,but actually, I don't think this kind of test is useful for day-to-day work.